The $1 Trillion Gap In Women's Health | Ep 9. Mariana De la Rosa & Jackelinne Vaillard

My guests today are industrial engineers who are now studying at CAST in Saudi Arabia and they're building a company called Neurosense, [music] an AIG guided journaling platform for emotional well-being. In this conversation, we're going straight into the business of it, what they're actually building, why they believe the need is real, and what they've gotten wrong so far. We're also going to talk about how they think about getting people to find it, use it, and pay for it. Mariana de la Rosa and [music] Jacine Vajard. Welcome to Women Lead AI.

So tell me about uh what you're building north. >> Okay, we are creating a new platform, a wellness platform based on journaling. So what we want to create is this AI ecosystem that could change or introduce a new concept into the market where you can have something physical that it is a flower plus an app and we are powering all the app to make the experience completely different. So this is what we are building right now. So, how um how did you decide that there's a gap in the market for this?

And how are you differentiating between um other other apps out there that have um you know kind of journaling AI component? >> You want to take this? >> Yeah. I think like both of us from before our teenage years, we've been doing journaling or trying different methodologies. But personally speaking, I am like the extensions app geek.

I'm always finding new tools and I tried different things but none of them like felt right. Like I would just keep skip the notifications. So I said like okay we want to do something new but another app like I said we are still in the same circle. We need to go beyond. And then Jackie came with the idea like yes we need to do something else.

It was 3:00 a.m. one night in front of the sea in our university and we were with a notebook and the pen and we started just throwing ideas to the air like what if we make a pen? What if we do this that? So then we realized we need something on our desk while we write and then the concept of the flower came through.

>> So why the flower? Because uh obviously it's easier to create just an app when you have a product you have to ship it, >> create it and you know like the the whole manufacturing aspect of it. So what's the role that the flower plays? >> I think one of the main challenges in the when you are working with your mind is that you cannot see what you are doing. Maybe other people can but for you it's kind of different.

So I remember having a conversation with someone and says yes when you go to the gym you start working out and you repeat and repeat and then you see muscles but what's happen when you write every day when you reflect on you every day it's kind of complicated so we want to make visible invisible so it's with something that feels connected with women. So flowers, we love to take care of the flowers. We love to receive flowers. And what if we connect this concept of our minds in a flower, take care of it. And it's a friendly reminder inside of your house and other houses that this is your mind.

I'm taking care of my mind. And maybe even men can go inside and see it and say, "Oh, this represents that." You don't know what's the meaning, what's behind it because it's personal, but you will know that something that now we're going to start to talk about it. M >> how did you go about uh making it and how is it connected to the app itself? What I mean by that is is it is the idea because I saw that it opens up uh and it looks very cool.

So u how is it is the idea that um if you do journaling every day it will open up or if you do if you've done it like once a day how yeah >> um it's something that is gamified. So first we believe with the open close and change colors is what you can do but we are also in King's College London investigating or doing like the scientific background of what we are doing. So when we say based on research in psychology how can we change that into the flower. So for example the first seven days you're going to see different colors and colors that are connected with women. So in your brain will give you feelings.

But after that if you want to see that color again you have to unblock the color. And how do you do that? Doing challenges. And these challenges are prepared to okay these seven days I'm going to unblock this color. Maybe it's my favorite or represent something for me.

>> And like each challenge has different activities. So the flower works like that. It's like an incentive when you are continuing writing. So yes the main function can be open, close and changing colors but everything has a reason behind it. It's like a the Duolingo, you know, they have the mascot.

Yeah. And the mascot gets very upset if you don't do it every day. >> So, um I think the I really like the idea that you have of gamifying it. Uh because that means that um yeah, like you're more you're incentivized more to um to do it every day, which is awesome. Um and when we were talking on the call, you said that um the gap in women's uh healthcare could add a trillion dollars by 2040.

>> Yes. >> So can you tell me about why the this gap exists in the first place uh in kind of broad strokes and how the solution that you're the product you're building is fits into that? Yes. So, I've become like very excited with this topic because it's mind-blowing. So, there are four factors why the gap exists.

Historically, women we've been under represented in research. The data that we have is not sex specific data and this translates into the attention we are receiving from medical institutions is that they are not considering beyond pregnancy like topics or fertility. So for example, cardiovascular diseases symptoms for women are often confused with indigestion symptoms like in the men standard and this ends up being in cardiovascular diseases the biggest debt for women in the US. >> Yeah. >> So that's the third factor and the fourth would be investment like the research development investment for both public and private sector is just 1 to 2% focused on women's healthcare.

So it's a very small percentage and how nurses would help to close the gap because this is huge right healthcare is cardiovascular mental there are very tiny details but if you think about it if you are not aware of yourself how are you feeling what are your symptoms then how you're going to ask for your doctor to change the system to provide a better solution a better attention right so I'd say nurs is that first stone to build the bridge from where we want to be into the attention we receive. >> That's so interesting. And it, you know, like it really resonates with me because I think I read a really long while ago that uh for example, when it comes to the um uh like the like when you're in a car and you have the the belt um >> Yes. like it's not really it's never been designed for uh for women because yeah [laughter] >> all of all of the cars are they use male dummy. So I think there are examples of that happening like again and again.

>> Um so I love the fact that you know you're building this for uh for that specific um kind of use case and that customer. So when we're thinking about the ideal kind of customer profile, who uh who do you see using your product? >> That has been very challenging to define the age. Of course, it's women focus, but in our workshops, we have people around 20 to 35 years old. But also we have presented the product with women with 40 40ome and they really like it.

But we have to define certain market just how can we reach them. So we said 20 to 35 years old. We meant that they want to take care of themselves or they are starting and they don't know how. So this profile will be super um amazing for nurses. We have seen like two kind of customers like the first girl will be this one that's already journaling but she wants to understand what she's writing.

So you'll continue doing that. She will give this as a gift for friends because we have had this um feedback. so amazing that they see the flower and a woman will say, "Maybe I don't want it for me because I already journal, >> but I want to give it for another girl. >> So then I'm going to share the goodness I'm like feeling right now." >> So this is the perfect profile for us.

Someone that already journal and want to have a better app that can change the approach or can give her new prompts based on what she wrote. Or the other hand, we have the person that just want to give the experience as a gift. M >> so it's how can we replicate the wellness and mind mindset through the flower >> and it's interesting what I was trying to say before that in this um report that the World Economic Forum and Mackenzie Health Institute did is that the prime years of the women is from the 20 to the 60 years old that's when we more we're more likely to suffer on health terms so I am really happy that our customer segment fits the segment that is in need of these solutions. >> When it comes to before you built the product, because as I understand it, it's it's now uh you you've got the the app almost ready. You're testing it.

How what kind of tests did you do to think okay I have this problem and I think the solution that we'll build will help to answer that but also other people uh have that problem as well. It's super nice because as Mar said, we were 3:00 a.m. just given random ideas and then we said, "Okay, we want to be in mental health and then we want to do something with journaling, but maybe something we do, but we don't know if other girls also do." >> So, we went out and we paced 50 flyers in the streets saying there is something between your lines, come see your patterns and just that and QR without saying this is for women, this is for male.

No logo, no age, nothing. What's black and white? >> Then our first workup workshop, we have women like being there with us. And they were open to talk about it. They already journal.

So we said, wow. And then we asked, do you use something digital or why did you come? Some of them say, I'm curious. I want to start, but I don't know how. >> So and why don't you use an app?

>> So then I said, no, I don't like it. I always skip it. I'll forget to use it again. So it's kind of generic when I see the the prompts I don't feel connected. So we say there is a pain point okay they want to they want to personalize experience and we start like to build this or to understand this pain point talking with girls through the workshops.

So, we organized four, right? Four. >> Yeah. Four workshops. And now that we're heading back to Saudi, we will have another one to kind of update our community there and show them like, hey, before you were talking to us about your painoint, we have the app now.

You can try it and show the flower as well. >> That's really cool. So, the poster that you created uh it was in um it was inviting people to come to the workshop. And what was the workshop about? completely.

The first one was about journaling. >> Yeah. >> So in the first one we guide them through different activities doing first something super I think was the bucket list, right? >> We had like three like >> uh stages. The first one we invited a neuroscientist to explain why journaling is important, why griding by hand on paper it's important and how it benefits your health.

>> Then we went into the decorative stage. So decor your journal. Let's put stickers. Let's put whatever you want. And the third one was writing down.

We noticed that everyone struggles to start the a brand new notebook. Like you always feel this pressure of it has to be perfect the first line. So I remember I opened the notebook and I just told them like let's do a crazy doodle. Let's avoid perfectionism. And then Jackie did this about the bucket list.

>> So yeah. And we also had a QR. So they scan the QR. We created this we can call it the fake door because we didn't have the app yet. >> So based on some entries in a survey you'll receive three prompts.

>> So with this we validate the experience like digital experience and if they like to receive prompts based on what so they they like it to say okay I like it because I answer so it felt connected with what I wanted to write. So I guess this is the how we shape the first idea >> and in that moment we didn't have the concept of the flower. So we were trying to get to know the pain points the solutions they were expecting and in can you sure about the >> Yes. >> So at that moment there was no flower. We were thinking like very inside the box like okay we have a notebook we have an app.

What can we do? Oh let's scan. So let's build something that you can put your phone to scan and that it flips pages. So this is what we were sharing with the girls in the workshop like hey would you be interested in a device that or as something a gadget that holds your phone and it flips the pages through your journal and they were like not really. So we said okay we need to look for something else.

>> They say it's something physical but not this. >> Okay. I I I think this is such a smart way to approach like what you know starting with actually what are the pain points from uh from these potential uh customers uh instead of I think a lot of people that they're like okay would you buy this or would you not buy this but you went kind of okay we're thinking about different things what you know what are the pain points that you path. So when it comes to the building of a product, you've got the idea for it. How do you get to the version to the point where you have the app?

>> We have a very nice co-founder. His name is Yousef >> and his moto is anything is possible. So whenever Jackie and me are discussing ideas like hey the app should have this this this and that and then the flower should do that he's already working on on the code or researching how can we do this for the flower specifically because it was like one week before our last presentation of the semester I think like two weeks max before the that last presentation the professors wanted to see something but we didn't really know how to use some machines at the lab so Jackie printed something pasted some papers around. >> I told you we're going to China. Wait.

>> Yeah. To the 3D printed pieces and it was like I'm sorry. It was a very ugly MVP. [laughter] >> Super. >> But it gave the idea to our professors and then Yousef saw how we struggled and then he said like girls I I know how we can do this.

And then from that stone or that first MVP we started iterating. But it's been always like brainstorming brainstorming >> and like about the app for example we got the first prototype telling prototype or the first version >> very quickly to say that >> because it was not that difficult but the thing that it's complicated with is AI you have to >> we we are running different models so we have to try it see if it is safety or not so when it is something we are in the wellness field but if something in the AI change you can go to mental device or mental health device. So for us each time that we iterate the app we have to verify everything the content how it looks. So I think our first MVP was just showing the prompt then showing a wheel of life where you see your patterns and then changing the color night to day. So something basic things >> like before it was very functional like in the core.

Now until like after four 6 months we are focusing on the design more in the U. >> Yeah. Because when we first we shared with our family close people and the girls we met in the first workshops. So we said like can you give us feedback first give it they gave us was I cannot understand how it works but for us it works. No that's easy.

Yes you just click here and then like yes but I don't know what's this button. I don't know what's this. So with the app you have to build with the community and the user because something that for you the one that is like making the app sounds it makes sense of course no it doesn't make sense and I don't know thinking about oh when you use a new app and it's complicated if you have a trouble you'll quit it say I prefer to use the tools I'm used to and that's it. So yeah we are iterating each time we talk with someone else do you know how this works and not really change this maybe we add even functionalities >> what if you can do this for us wow we add a new feature the future can be useless for the user >> so yeah so each version of the app has been going through making something new verify the AI or maybe delete something so yes >> because we didn't let go the scanning part so we still have OCR and because we are in Saudi Arabia or like there are a lot of people out there that want to try the journaling the Arabic has a total different calligraphy >> so we are struggling a lot with that OCR so it's another challenge we have >> yeah of course cuz I I'm assuming that >> a lot of the data that they have like the way OCR works the more examples that they have they have examples right now from English but not from uh >> examples Yeah. And our also our characteristic for our app is that it's on device and privacy first.

>> So we are not really using the user's photos to train our model. >> Mhm. >> Which adds another level of difficulty. >> Yeah. Of course.

>> Yeah. Also that that we don't use cloud on your device. So the first version of the app was super heavy. So even we met a person he's a psychologist. So he wanted to see and verify the app from his background and then he couldn't download the app.

>> So we're like no way. >> So then we have to figure it out. Uh because our main goal is to make that provide a tool that's completely private for you. >> So it's our challenge and something where you can use handwriting because it's important also that. So as Mar said the OCR is complex.

So for us going the first MVP to the version that we have now it's every day make changes and every day ask people if they understand what we are doing. >> So let's talk about how do you go from where you are now to this uh being a business. So uh how you thinking about getting the customers and also monetizing the product that you have? So we have two revenue models. Um basically the first one's the users that they just want to use an app.

So they can grow their flower in the app but not something physical. So this is the first revenue model and you can try the app. You can unblock a challenge see if you like our methodology and then you pay for the monthly subscription. The other hand we have the ones that are going to buy the flower. So something we discovered making this onetoone interview say like but if you buy the flower are you willing to pay for the subscription say no I want first trial so we have this three months free subscription >> where you unblock the first functionalities you start to personalize and later on you pay for the subscription >> and adding to this we are also thinking on the circular economy and sustainability so if someone ends up buying the flower that has the three months trial and they don't like it we are thinking on a program like how can we repurpose this flower and give it to another potential user instead of okay send it back to our warehouse or wherever.

So we have this program to restart so we are not wasting uh resources. >> And when it comes to the the customers as well uh when I was uh speaking with someone that we both know uh with Simon she's the founder of um tailored another app she said one of the biggest challenges is distribution. So uh how are you planning to actually acquire the customers? >> I think for us we applied to an accelerator that's in Saudi. So in the business plan you have to write down that.

>> So we were thinking about it. I mean both of us we are supply we are industrial engineers. So we know about logistics and we know in a product the most expensive part is the distribution. >> So like the distribution for the app and the hardware. For the app, I think for us it's easier because we are connected with the community.

So >> community first. >> Yeah. So that's help us. But for the flower, that's why we go in China. So in China, we want to meet in person with some um suppliers.

We are also thinking about making partnerships. We already have three partnerships that are focused in the wellness space. So we're thinking if they support us since the beginning just having an idea we would love to give them the flowers and maybe they can sell them and find these places where women can go and find the gift. So still thinking about it. I think yes the distribution we have to figure it out with the supplier >> and I think we forgot to mention before another like maybe not distribution channel but could be revenue model.

We're planning to work also with organizations so maybe either schools psychologist who have their consultants um and maybe even hotels like we are starting to see a trend on longevity hotels or these wellness hotels. So this is another thing we are doing research but even for the app we've come across not everyone is on social media so mail is very important to us right now and it's something we totally over >> say >> like email or >> yeah email but that's so nice because we have a girl >> in our Instagram a girl sent us a message she's in Jeda I think I can mention her name yeah it's like a so she said girls I really love the idea I love that you want to reach the community but some of us like we do journaling but we don't use social media so I just opened my social media I saw the idea and I would love to contribute to writing can you share what I write with the community >> a newsletter >> can you can I do I do the newsletter I'm still studing my major I'm doing psychology I lived here so oh what an amazing channel like we don't know that works personally speaking I don't like read um I don't know advertisements or things in my email, >> but we found this new channel and this girl really believed in our idea and believe in psychology and journaling. So having her practicing what she's learning plus sharing the main message of nur sense with the community has been super nice. >> No, that's amazing. And I think you know social media like is super powerful but the fact that when you have someone's email address it means that the algorithm is not deciding you know whether it's going to show up uh to that person you you have basically direct route to them.

>> Um which is you know which is which is much better. So when you're thinking about the next six months, what uh what are the main challenges that you see and uh how are you thinking about uh resolving them? [laughter] >> I think the first one is the flower. Right now we have a prototype. We couldn't bring it but we will show you pictures >> and maybe you can add it in the video if you would like.

>> But the flower is our biggest goal right now because we're going back to Saudi. will have this workshop but in December we will have our showcase for the master and it's not only that we want we have to have the finished like product and the visualization of how it would look like in shelves in retail. >> So I think that's the main one. >> Ah yes and also because we want to make the flower that looks something beautiful that you want to have at home but you know the prices of the materials right now. Uh so this is some other thing that we have to figure it out like if we add a new material talking with the community and said are you willing to pay a little more for this or not.

So this is the first challenge. I think the second one for us is also everything about regulatory open the company in Saudi Arabia because we need to pay our effort and time doing that but at the same time we are developing the prototype. So it's kind of challenging but I think the team is so nice because we know how to split come back with activities and then come back and say I did this media feedback let's do it again. So for us that's other challenge and I think uh yes the time sometimes when you are in this stage being an entrepreneur uh you have a plan we always have a do list we share the the do list >> every day. >> Yeah.

And then we receive that day in the morning we have this meeting or an opportunity or something and then we we didn't do something you know last week I guess we were stressed because we couldn't finish something in the to-do list not even one activity but we did other things so sometimes it's also challenging um because we are talking about wellness right for the people but you have to leave your slogan. >> Yeah. So [laughter] yes for us it's like oh my god we cannot beat the stress we cannot go out and say write if we don't write >> 30 minutes I'll go journal and come back >> sometimes we have meetings I'm doing my journal and we know that the journal time we don't touch so it doesn't matter we have something someone's doing journaling >> yeah I guess if you're the CEO of um kind of well-being company and you're stressed out and burnt out it's it's not a very good look >> why don't you [laughter] journal >> why don't to try your own solution first and >> yeah having the balance in this stage with your life it's something that you have to write down and then prioritize and having this time for you so I will say that's something that going to be a challenge also some days we will have to give more time and I'm talking about late night because for us we don't have hours we have just goals but even though sometimes you are tired you know so uh I think that will will be a challenge working our mind every way to leave our slogan and share with the community that's possible even if the challenge so big. >> Yeah. >> And in terms of how you know h how well do you think the um the course work that you've done uh has prepared you for what you're doing now?

because I always find that you know university and and the courses feel like one thing and then it's like real word. [laughter] So how um yeah how how did you find it? >> I think they've done a great work because to be honest we are very used to the fastness of the world. Maybe what we didn't really understood was the legal aspects because from country to country it changes like we're from Mexico so we know our side of the world then Saudi a little bit but now we came to London so it's like how does it work here >> like every day you're reading and something new comes in. So I'd say that part but for you what would be?

>> Oh my god. I think um yes being prepared of adapt to the different markets is because we were completely focused in that stage in Saudi Arabia. So sometimes the conversation there will be completely different that other places. So I think h just that's something that we have to learn while we were presenting like since the first week we went to pitches and they was okay but this is not for here. So how do you adapt?

So in the moment you have to figure it out [laughter] and then you have to be like the lesson learned. So for me it's just that how do you think about your idea but knowing that now all the markets are connected and even if we are different as women we have a lot of things in common. So how can you create something that is not just for certain markets so it's something that you can scale up and impact more lives. So I think yeah that thing can change here in London. >> Now that you mentioned that as well you reminded me we were used back in the uni to take all the opportunities because we were during classes a fixed schedule and then after there were opportunities that could fit everything but when once we arrived here in London there are multiple things happening at the same time.

So that's when we also have to learn to prioritize which opportunity we're going, which one are we missing, where are we going to pay more or traveling, right? So that's another interesting thing. I think this is I think for every entrepreneur being able to say no is like [laughter] is the biggest uh the biggest challenge because I I relate to it so much where when you are in uni uh there aren't there are opportunities but it you know you're you're basically conditioned to say yes yes yes but then you have to learn how to say no um which is [laughter] Yeah, which is much um which is much harder um think so you know in those different markets when I think about Saudi, UK, China, how does it shaped you and the way that you make this company? Because I imagine uh being in those different um places impacts how you see the world as well. Oh my god.

I can I can tell you if I go back Mexico, maybe my mom gonna see this video, she will know that I'm completely different person. So yes, I guess like this each part of the world has shaped shaped myself. >> So I understand something that it's uh you have to forget about what you learned before. It's completely fake. Leave it in person and then you're going to know that the world's amazing.

So I think like each part I mean Saudi I have an impression I didn't know like something about Saudi it's an amazing place welcoming people the girls are open to be with you it's a beautiful community of women so I learned that here in London so amazing like maybe before we had this idea that will be difficult how do you communicate with people if you are from oh my god everyone can talk with you we go to the battery seat sometimes to talk we sit and people will be like ah yes I'll give you feedback like and the talk. So at the with the time you'll know that at the event we are just humans and we have differences but if you just focus in the positive things I think what's changed my mind forget about what you learned before and talk with the persons in front of you with your open mind it doesn't matter personality religion or things that you had from before I guess shape it so for nense the same maybe we start in a market that's different but how can we open our mind to say if you open your mind and you clear all the things you had before you can create something that can impact more women. So I guess yeah like now I can see the world so amazing and yeah >> for me it has changed a lot the way I see entrepreneurship cuz before the master I was working for a biotechnology startup. So I was like manager level but of course the founders were doing lots of things and I would always see them busy but I never realized how tough that was until I took their place and I'm like oh my god how did you do that but also I learned a lot from them that now I am applying now and from my context specifically I've always been in this kind of bubble or small city so London has been a completely 180°ree shift for me Yeah, >> I was never used to move alone and now I am doing it. I feel like now now I am more extroverted because I consider myself ambivert but entrepreneurship requires you to talk to stand out.

So >> that has been the biggest >> uh I went to um US uh I think a week ago and uh yeah you know just like traveling it it changes how like changes so much how we see the world. Um so uh I I definitely um relate to that. So um when you if you were to start uh this whole journey again, how how would you do things differently? Like when we think about some of the mistakes um and the failures, what Yeah. What would you do differently?

>> Um I think talk and do like at the same time because at the beginning we were trying to be perfect. Exactly. So we were falling into that trap. >> So talking more with people, talking more between us, like going back into our own history and >> yeah, like learn from what we did before and kind of apply it in the present, but talking talking and attending events even though you think has nothing to do with what you were doing, you find people that they have a lot of things in common. >> Yeah.

I guess I will say um something I will do better if you have an idea just build something super basic and show it. If people see what you are doing just the concept >> they will continue giving you feedback. So for us okay we started with this project but before we had more projects we were working with menopause space fertility trackers. So we were having million ideas but we didn't go out and ask do you really want this or need this? Are you willing to pay for this?

Do you like it? So I think was the first lesson we lost a lot of time just thinking and investing in the market where you say yeah. So secondly, I will say uh not because your idea is different than the other ones or requires less science, it means less because before we wanted to do just um fertility uh we were just focused in deep science because we were in that university you know it's amazing but when we said journaling personally speaking I was scared so like how how can we move we were building this huge thing and then I'm going to do this and it's meaningful. So I think don't compare yourself with what other people is doing. And the third one I would say love the stage you are right now.

So when we came here to London we went to different events. We met princesses from different countries. We I promise and first even we were just shocked what can I say like I don't have the company yet you know uh >> love who you are and we say we are learning uh we are starting our startup >> and they're super open to help you when they see that you are not lying of who you are and then you show that this is what we I have now right now okay moving this way so yes embra hug that part of you that's still learning it doesn't matter if you are successful or if you are still starting I would say just do it. >> Yeah. I I encountered so many people where you know for example what I do doesn't quite fit um into what they do but they're like oh I know the person that I can introduce you to.

Uh and I think you come across so many people that have that mindset. Um, and you know, just talking about what you're working on, like it will spark something in in the other person. Um, so I think that's like one of the biggest hacks when it comes to um like starting your own um company. Uh so when we're talking about how how are you going to actually manufacture the flower? Because if it was me, I would be like, "Okay, I guess I can freely print it.

" But you can't do it continuously if you want to be like a business. So, I I understand you'll be in China, but how do you get, you know, in front of basically someone who has a warehouse and has the manufacturing capability in a country that you don't know as well? I think for the first part what's important and we did it when we were doing the business plan uh we at the beginning we cannot buy molds so you have to go with suppliers and ask for molds but it requires a big investment so we were talking with a product designer and she knows very well manufacturing she was g saying why don't you do the first manufacturing just buying the components >> manually manually >> so first 200 flowers make it manually But so amazing we can give jobs to women that they want to build with us >> and then when we validate the concept we can build something perfectly. So China will be more about finding >> the right >> the right materials finding the suppliers that maybe now can supply us the elements also because you need protection. So you cannot send the flower to them.

So you can have we have to build it in our lab. Of course, we forget about 3D printing. It's so expensive. So, we need to figure it out that and once we after one year, we validate the concept, we have the first flowers, um then we can go invest in the molds and create something bigger. >> But yes, of course, it's kind of complicated now going to China and say that they're going to build everything.

No, because they are used to huge quantities. But the amazing part is that they are now getting adapted to the smaller moqs >> and also we're fortunate to have the support of our university. So while being there in China, we're not going to be just alone roaming around that we're very fortunate to have the support also of the uni because if we were alone in China, maybe it would be more complicated, but the uni is helping us to go through these legal steps that we need to go through before sending a file or even to receive our samples while we in London so we can get some steps ahead. >> That's good. And you said that you're applying for accelerators.

what are you hoping to get out of them? And I mean I I imagine money is always good, right? [laughter] >> Um especially if you have like a physical product that you need to build, but um yeah, how are you thinking those accelerators will help you? >> So I think we've been applying to different kinds of accelerators in like different parts of the world. So >> yeah, >> business-wise, I'd say perfection our strategy or not perfection but build something stronger, something that can really happen on how to sell this because we don't want to stop just with the app or with the flower.

We want to go beyond building community having more sustainability like le initiatives. >> So we really want to know how can we do it effectively, sustainable, scalable. So I think that's what we want to get from them because their expertise is 10 times bigger than maybe the ones we already have >> and I will add just this part of the access to partners because when would you want to run pilots if you are already an accelerator is easier because you have the support and the decisions you're going to take are also based on the experience of others. So I will say that it's not just about that we need a investment but we need to know how can we use that money properly. So I would say that that we are looking for that accelerators to know what can we do with our first investment where can we focus and how can we scale up >> and what you said the and it aligns with Jackie the partnerships the networking it goes more like higher quality let's say sometimes that if we were just by our own.

>> Yeah of course I mean if you get a warm intro from someone it's much easier than uh just the cold outreach. Yeah. >> And when you're thinking about partnerships and when I think about your product, you know, to me it seems something like um that a lot of employers might be interested in um to add it like as a as a benefit to their employees. Um so when you think about the commercial aspect of it, are you thinking is it mostly B2C or are you thinking about uh B2 like selling this as a solution business to business? >> We're starting B2C but one of our goals by December is to have one pilot at least with someone from B2B.

We are not yet sure that we want to start with schools because then it will require maybe more guard rails into um yeah I mean schools mean younger people but hotels like the ones I mentioned before longevity or these wellness places they are the ones that are fitting the most with our profile right now. So yes for us as Mar said is B2Z was our first word. It is still because I mean we haven't changed because we haven't validated with B2B >> and it's easier to get the feedback as well. >> So so far we have built everything based on B2C but a lot of people they have come and say why don't you try B2B it's easier >> and they can buy more samples they can try it with you they can run pilots. So we don't want to forget that feedback.

So now we are trying to find B2B uh partners and then validate if it is easier and we can reach more people at the beginning maybe we can change the approach. I mean now everything can change so fast in this stage. So we are trying to do that but we haven't done because we don't have validated that point yet. >> I think it's um it's a it's a good idea especially because you can get that feedback much quicker. Uh so it means that the product that you ultimately have like ends up being much better.

Um which is good. Um so you said that you know the one of your first customers you got them by putting up the the posters. Um is that how are the how has the first customer found you besides that? And uh what are the channels that you will be focused to get the word out um in the next you know 6 to 12 months? >> The first part was with the posters.

We shifted to workshops and from the workshops they started to follow us on Instagram. So I think right now Instagram is the social media where we are posting more things. Now we also shifted to LinkedIn but we recently got a mentorship session with someone that told us you need to work on your personal brand >> like you are building this so you need to also share your story and say why I am building this why is this important who am I behind doors like who am I aside from building this so I think right now that's from where we are getting more people because before that's one way trick we were checking constantly how many friends are following nurses because we're We love you guys but we need new people that can give us like unbiased feedback. >> So yeah. >> Yes.

The main challenge can be social media. This thing that we said about the email and how more mouth or word of mouth. Yes. I guess something is powerful with us >> because having this intention with the project and having a new concept help us a lot. So a lot of times we go with the flower and we show it and what's that?

So they know it and then like the other day someone wrote in the Instagram I was talking with my mom and I talked with her about your flowers. Wow. So amazing idea. How guys did you started with this? Um I don't know.

So these things I think helps a lot like the community like community will [clears throat] help you if you are connected with them and you don't see them as an users if not as part of your family or your thing that you are building. >> Yeah. And also with this, we were trying to do events here in London, like you know the app Luma. >> I'm sorry. >> The Luma app.

>> Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, one day we said like, we haven't done anything in London.

Let's post that we're going to be in this park 8:00 a.m. journaling. Bring your stuff. Let's do things.

It was the three co-founders and some friends that said, "Oh, I might go." But it was super early. >> Yeah. I was about to say 8:00 a.m.

[laughter] >> But we learned that people want to attend something here 8:00 a.m. If it is not about running >> exactly even though they're running, they won't go for [laughter] >> I say, "Oh my god, lesson learned." Then we post that 3 days before. >> Um, yeah, the place is amazing.

But that's when you say, "Stop seeing yourself and saying, "I love to come here 8:00 a.m." Yes. But that doesn't mean that people will come. I think it's uh it's hard to drag someone out of bed unless you promise them a lot of coffee and a lot of pastry.

So, right now you're in the uh beta beta taste test. Now you're doing a beta testing. So, how uh at what point are you going to uh switch to the app being out there and why haven't you done it actually uh already? I think the first goal will be December because well in September we have the showcase. >> Yeah.

>> So like why haven't we went further is because we want to go more professional on the design the details. As I told you before we were just focusing on the core functions but now we're going towards something that is appealing to the side that makes sense with the flower that it's more of a ritual not just a tool like >> you're doing homework there. No, no. We really want this to feel part of the users's dayto-day. >> But the next step would be to launch it publicly.

But right now, as we're iterating very fast, we don't want people to get lost in all the versions because you know when you are starting to use something and then it changes constantly. >> That also can make you quit like oops I was just learning how to use and then change it again. So I'd say that's mainly why. But when I will say September we have a huge showcase uh now in one community that's women in entrepreneurship. So we're going to show the first MVP there openly.

So now we can launch it into the app store play store but as Mar said it will help affect us if we don't have like a ready prototype. So for September we have that goal coming back to China. We need to show the flower and we launch the app. But I will say the not the perfect but the best version will be in December because September and September is still gonna be for free with real testers but it's not beta. Okay, I like it.

Then we receive feedback. I like it but I'm using it. I'm sharing it and December we want to like have the real last version. >> That's awesome. That's uh hopefully I can get the access to it soon.

So [laughter] I will I will test it again. [snorts] Um do you think the uh the the fact that you are uh doing not just the app but also the product alongside it is going to help you um get the customers because I guess with these kind of products like journaling um and in general self-improvement you you only see the difference you know in 3 months time and it's hard to see that difference. Um, so do you think that acquiring the customer will be easier because of that? I mean like if if it will be easy to see the value of what they are doing >> during the time get that's why we introduce the flower because before I think when we talk with them it's difficult difficult for the users to see the value of it but when we were showing the methodology and they really feel well listen themselves then they say yes I want to continue so for us the flower is the meaning of that So we provide the prom, we provide the AI the patterns but if you don't feel that you are looking at or taking care of something or having this external motivation they will quit. So we say with the flower we can aim to do that and other thing we are still thinking but something that's on the table what we are validating we are saying after some time you take care of the flower something needs to happen if not you have the habit you unblock the all the functionalities what would happen so first thing is we are thinking about h you can customize your flower with the petals and changing some things and secondly after 6 months we are thinking about why don't we do a green initiative.

>> So for example, Mar was saying we can create a huge garden place with flowers. So when you finish your process then we we as a company we're going to plant a flower a real flower. >> So that means that what you do with yourself impacts the worlds and it's our slow one. When you bloom everything around blooms too. So we are doing that we validate people like it and they say but after that what will happen and that's when we say if someone finish the process then you can give it to someone else >> and then restart.

>> Yes. So the retention I will say will be with the flower seeing that and the community I think like uh I was looking at a documentary that says now the people don't buy products they buy communities >> and so think about whoop so the community of people running and then you'll see in the shirt I mean the product's amazing I'm just saying like I really love to highlight what they are doing with the community uh the same with Straa or other habit tracker apps So for us the same with the community they'll keep engaged because they can see that it's not just for them but also they can replicate for someone else >> and even though we say like maybe we have a time line or where we say the user will have no sense for nine one year nine months or one year like what we were mentioning at the beginning of the conversation our prime is between 20 and 60 years and personal growth is something that changes constantly. It's like there's not going to be one end goal that it's going to become a flower. But if you decide like okay I have this goal now I want for the next one is something they can constantly do and relive the experience. And by having this garden is something they additional they can see but outside their house like outside the screen outside the room outside their house something where they can take someone that needs to talk maybe they are not ready to use nurses but it's like hey do you want to come with me to nursing's garden?

So, and it's something replicable and scalable. So, that's why we're like very interested in doing these kind of initiatives. >> That's awesome. >> Is norance that something that you think about running in the next uh five years? >> Yes.

[laughter] >> So, it's it's not just like a university project you're >> I think that's something that has differentiated us a lot. Like our team, we are not really thinking oh this is a master project it will end in December. We are really pushing. We're showing off. Not showing off, but like we're putting us out there in social media.

We're sharing a lot of things like, "Hey, we have nurses. We really want to make this happen. Who do you know we can talk to?" Um, yeah, we're we're trying to make it happen. >> What What did you learn about yourself through this whole process?

Because being a founder is such a big challenge. Uh I think being a female founder is even bigger challenge. >> So what have you learned about yourself and also um yeah like how how how has this experience shaped you? like Mariana [laughter] was one minute >> one minute I guess for me I think before I I was working I work in a company for five years and I was being successful to to saying that but when I changed to being an entrepreneur I love it so I think before I got the knowledge but now I found that I'm super creative I'm crazy creative so each time I'm sitting there I'm just thinking like what can we do and I have stories and everything. So I found out that something that maybe before was difficult for me because was what can I do with this creativity?

Then I was wow something that's part of me it's strong and it helps people can help people. So I learned that of me. I learned that I'm super resilient. So being entrepreneurs is about being resilient >> and also to accept how big you are because sometimes you can be scared about saying I'm creative, I'm smart, I'm so then say no no I you will have to have just one quality >> but when you are an entrepreneur you have to give everything [laughter] >> so you're going to be in a scenarios where you need to be creative you're going to be in other ones that you have to be just good with numbers so but I think as a woman sometimes we limit ourselves to say I'm good at this and that's it. And this journey helped me to figure out that being a woman represents to you can be you can be big in everything and I am.

So I love to share that and I learned that each time that I do something for me um and I put this as a personal goal I have to replicate it with other woman. So it's like okay if I'm going to run today I'm going to try to find a positive my way to do it and I'm go to talk with someone I'll tell you run in this way use this shoes uh no worries don't quit now journal today try with this quote so I learned that that when I grow and I push myself to be better I inspire women I inspire girls so it's something that change inside of me accept the things I am in a positive way and how can I do that all the things I do can inspire other girls. >> So, yeah, >> I like me and Jackie, not only we have the same background, but we also agree that we are both creative, we're both resilient, we both want to inspire women. And something that I can add to the conversation is that throughout my life, because I completed all my academic degrees like in the time they were supposed to happen and then I entered to work, I felt like I didn't need anything extra. like even though I did I felt like hm I don't have a network I don't know how can I ask if I am starting a company but I realized that um now I understand the meaning of bootstrapping [laughter] now I'm like wait I have met a lot of people when I worked for this startup I met this guy this girl I have the community of girls that I teached in summer camps that now they are giving feedback for the app so I am really giving the value that my previous experience has >> and I am using it for the benefit of my now like nursing the project.

>> No, that's amazing. I was reading a book the other day and it was self-improvement and there was an exercise where they ask you to list all of your best qualities. Uh, and the the author of the book said, "Uh, I know you'll probably it will be easier to to list all of your worst qualities, but think about the best ones." [laughter] >> And, you know, it's it's so it's so true that so many of us focus on, you know, things that we're not great at instead of thinking, "Oh, actually, I'm really good at this and I can do this." Um, so yeah, I really like that.

So, if someone in the audience has never journaled before, um, like me, [laughter] so I've never done it, what would you say is is the biggest change that they're going to see once they start doing it for a month, three months, a year. So, I will tell you what I said when I meet someone that haven't journaled before. I'll say that I I don't know if you have this experience when you are talking about your problems with other friend and when you are talking you listen yourself and you say I know I know what I have I know the answer I don't want to listen but I'm going to say it >> so in that moment what's happen is that you're listen yourself what will happen with journaling is that but when you are gripping everything your brain your hand yourself will be connected there so won't you won't have distractors and will be super difficult difficult to lie to yourself because sometimes there is a lot of noise outside you know so it's easy to just change yourself just to shape the place you are but when it's just yourself your room your pen and your book it's impossible you cannot so it's like going in front of the mirror and go insult yourself in front of the mirror you can't you can't so that's journaling listen yourself like a phone do you have so I'll tell you I think after one week will be difficult to do it daily to be honest requires time. >> Yeah. But at least three four times you'll identify by yourself some patterns.

You say this day I don't really like to do this or in the other way you'll say I'm super positive I really like to do this why. So I think will help you to understand yourself and the things you like the things you don't like and with the time you will understand that listening yourself is not something that will happen just when you have negative times will be every day. So you'll be super glad. Like today I drank this u I don't know today I discovered that I really like matcha latte but with oat milk and before I was like no no oat milk no in Mexico we don't drink that and one day super dumb but I journaled I felt bad I felt super good after drinking that and my stomach like it so even though I know my society we don't have that and looks for me I listen myself I like it why not? So now every day I go okay I'm proud of me small things.

So you'll find these small things that makes you happy and big things that maybe now okay I will ignore it and know they are there and that you have the answer inside of you. >> I'm I'm sold. So [laughter] I'll um yeah I'll give it a try. >> And I love that journaling it's like a complete journey because there are different kinds of journaling. So you could do maybe food physical health related journaling like what Jackie said like oh I've been trying this new food it made me feel this way.

You can do the junk journaling, creative journaling, drawing. What we're doing with the app is expressive grinding. >> So, it's more centered on the words, but like we're working towards the creative side. And also before I heard that they say a habit is built in 21 days, but like the real data says that it's from 21 to 200 or even 300 days. So, it's not that easy.

It's going to be like a roller coaster. And Jackie said grading daily is going to be tough at the beginning. But also a change that I've seen in people that start is like when they do this one, two, three times, they start craving writing more and more. And sometimes they block themselves like oops I cannot read if I don't have the right notebook, the right pen or the right amount of time to write. So it's a journey.

It's a roller coaster. But I'd say go with it. Carry your journal everywhere. And whenever inspiration comes, sit down. >> Okay, let's uh I I've learned so much in this conversation.

Uh so let's do um a fast round. >> So what is the metric that you're uh checking first thing in the morning? >> I guess you can go ahead. We said we don't we won't share that because each of us we have >> we have different metrics. So right now for me is time and Instagram followers.

Time because of like the deadline sometimes like wait what day is today? Which time zone I'm in? I need to talk to these people to this this are they awake and the followers on Instagram because what I said like before we had a lot of friends following but now like strangers people we've met on the park on talks events are following us. So that is something that it's making me think okay we are really moving forward. M >> for me I will say progress in the app and the hardware every day push that to say no we have to have the product we need to and other thing I say maybe the beta testers or the people that are interesting on the product so if that grows of my morning will start super nice if not like we need to change something or improve something because we didn't change so yeah I will say that >> what is uh I think you mentioned that u the uh channel that you found works really well that you didn't expect it to work that well >> mail [laughter] >> the email and Instagram I guess we struggle a lot with the social media >> so the beginning we were posting in our Instagram you know these quotes I mean we wrote the quotes we were so nice >> it was very static like just we didn't like likes we have a followers but they didn't like the post so then we attended a creators event here in London say share your story, show your face, share what you are saying and then you'll have followers and likes.

We were not expecting because we saw like no we don't have I mean we try so Instagram is not working let's go Tik Tok let's go let's move and then we say no actually yes you just need to show like the human aspect of what you are doing and that so I think Instagram but approach is a human and not something you think they like >> companies >> yeah no so I think that >> Saudi Mexico London China what you haven't been to China yet but uh the first three cases I mentioned Which one do you think has had the most impact on you? >> London that I have high hopes for China because if we feel that here we are working fast, China is going to really challenge us. I think >> I think I'll say yeah um I don't know it's difficult between Saudi and London. I guess in Saudi we have the first push like the first Yes. this this is real we are with you we believe in your idea just go ahead so these girls push us to come here let's start but here we have to move so fast and we face the real world you know like the business world first time we went to an event we had a investor there and we asked her hey tomorrow we have a one pitch presentation I would love to know your feedback and she said pitch me now one minute >> oh my god [laughter] comfort zone >> yeah out of the comfort zone What is actually what your one minute pitch like now?

[laughter] >> I love it. [gasps] >> I will tell you every day we take care of everything but so difficult to take care of ourselves. That's why we create nurses. We want to introduce new concept into the market. That is the flower.

You'll see what you are doing with yourself, your journal, your writing. You understand your mind, but you're going to take care of the flower as you take care of your mind. To do this, we need investment. But because we are building something physical. So we are one of manufacturer in China and also we are creating a huge community here in London and here in uh GCC countries.

So the first step for this is starting building something that they can actually see and they're going to scale up to other alternatives. And we just want to replicate something with every women going to their houses and say take care of yourself and you take care of the flowers. >> Nice. [laughter] And this is different each time we change it because you know for accelerators we have to record a video. It's like oh my god >> we spend three hours for a one minute video.

[laughter] Oh my god. >> So yes I guess London London push us >> and even in that event the one minute pitch like she prepared the whole day because it was only one person giving the pitch. She was taking a lot of notes and she read like the script she had in mind and on stage she said something completely different and she was worried I think at the beginning like oh I didn't say what I wanted but I told her it was way better than whatever you had planned. Ah yes because in that moment we were focusing the app and the flower was like maybe >> and then after that pitch I don't know why my gut my god changed everything and said talk about the flower >> so in that minute was so nice because the team they were with me and they was okay just one in that moment just one person could talk so we were opening closing the flower and I said everything I didn't talk was my god I promise what did you say and they clapped the people came say wow you're doing is so oh my god London changed our project because I think people help us to see you are really something real something real your concept is different that's what makes powerful and the thing about the flower all of our brands make about like around the flower and man and me we were rumies before being co-founders so we have a rule in the house we always have to have flowers so >> oh yeah we always have flowers >> so yeah like I will say yes London was huge in our journey. >> Thank you.

Uh thank you so much and I have so many takeaways. Um so and I'm sure the the audience will um take away a lot from this conversation as well. So uh yeah, thank you so much. >> Thank you for having [laughter] >> Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Women Lead AI. I learned so much from it.

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